H9k Reverb times go to 100 and are very difficult to control

[patchen]

Greetings all, Whenever I try to adjust the reverb time on a preset I find it almost imposible to adjust the value as most of the reverb times go to 100 seconds.  

If you want to play with values betwwen .5 and 3 secconds for a ‘normal’ room you are basically out of luck as that is basically all within the first couple pixels of the knob’s throw. The knobs used have no taper and neither the hardware or the Emote app utilize any kind of knob acceleration which might help.  You can shift+drag but it is still just so fiddly.  It doesn’t seem reasonable that you have to use modifier keys just to set a reverb time to a normal value. I love the sound of this box but this aspect of the user interface is really killing it for me.

Is this something we should expect a fix for or is this the way it is always going to be on this box?

Do the earler boxes, Orville/H8000 suffer from the same problems?

 

[joeydego]

patchen wrote:

Greetings all, Whenever I try to adjust the reverb time on a preset I find it almost imposible to adjust the value as most of the reverb times go to 100 seconds.  

If you want to play with values betwwen .5 and 3 secconds for a ‘normal’ room you are basically out of luck as that is basically all within the first couple pixels of the knob’s throw. The knobs used have no taper and neither the hardware or the Emote app utilize any kind of knob acceleration which might help.  You can shift+drag but it is still just so fiddly.  It doesn’t seem reasonable that you have to use modifier keys just to set a reverb time to a normal value. I love the sound of this box but this aspect of the user interface is really killing it for me.

Is this something we should expect a fix for or is this the way it is always going to be on this box?

Do the earler boxes, Orville/H8000 suffer from the same problems?

 

Can you click or double click on a value and type it in?

[patchen]

Sure you can, but that is a pretty terrible way to fine tune a reverb decay time. Wrong tool for the job imo

[donrwatters]

Can you assign a function control and change the curve to match your need?

[patchen]

Yes, that is a possible solution if I wanted to do it for every single preset. I guess my point is that it really shouldn’t be necessary. The user interface should just work correctly out of the box.

[patchen]

I’d love to get an official response from someone at eventide on this. I know the work arounds, but frankly it’s pretty disappointing that they are necessary.

[italoop]

So the original programmers were right, at least….

[patchen]

As I understand it there currently a bug where if you hit enter to enable fine knob control it becomes stuck and you cannnot exit fine control mode.  This would actually be a great feature if the mode could be latching.  If you could double tap the enter button to enter fine control mode, and double tap it to exit and if this state were remembered per knob for as long as the algorithm is loaded.   This way you would not have to hold down the enter button while turning the knob and thus have to use 2 hands which would be a worse user experience.  Emote is another story and currently you have to use modifier keys which is really a pain honestly. (My opinion of course)  

So, for the hardware at least perhaps this can be a feature request:

1) Persistent, latching fine control of knobs, per knob, per loaded algorithm.  

and

2) Better resolution control with slow encoder movements. 

 

Cheers,

Patchen

[jbamberg]

patchen wrote:

I’d love to get an official response from someone at eventide on this. I know the work arounds, but frankly it’s pretty disappointing that they are necessary.

Well, the tapering of the knobs (or lack of it) is determined by the algorithm designer.  Many of the older algorithms that come from the H8000 and earlier boxes did not get as much attention paid to the tapering as later ones (for example, those from the H9 or plugins).  They behave in the H9000 just as they did on the older hardware.

If you have a particular algorithm or algorithms in mind, we'd be happy to look into improving their usability.  There are thousands of them though, and I don't think we have the resources to go through them all.

[italoop]

jbamberg wrote:

patchen wrote:

I’d love to get an official response from someone at eventide on this. I know the work arounds, but frankly it’s pretty disappointing that they are necessary.

Well, the tapering of the knobs (or lack of it) is determined by the algorithm designer.  Many of the older algorithms that come from the H8000 and earlier boxes did not get as much attention paid to the tapering as later ones (for example, those from the H9 or plugins).  They behave in the H9000 just as they did on the older hardware.

If you have a particular algorithm or algorithms in mind, we’d be happy to look into improving their usability.  There are thousands of them though, and I don’t think we have the resources to go through them all.

 

 

Mmmmh…

that’s incorrect.

99.9% of the reverb A/B/C/D modules based algorithms have their decay time adjustable between 0.0 to 1000.00 seconds. Very, very few stop at 100.0 sec. And all are fully and easily adjustable from the knob or numeric keypad.  A few old DSP4000 presets may be using a smaller range and/or a tapered knob, making the decay times values not fully linear…. but that’s about a dozen presets, maybe.

No tapered knobs where ever used in all other algorithms… also because making reverb decay Tap Tempo controllable requires fully linear knobs control and high resolution quantization (0.xx sec).

I suspect something went a bit upside/down in the conversion to H9k… the thing requires attention and reprogramming… likely.

[jbamberg]

italoop wrote:

99.9% of the reverb A/B/C/D modules based algorithms have their decay time adjustable between 0.0 to 1000.00 seconds. Very, very few stop at 100.0 sec. And all are fully and easily adjustable from the knob or numeric keypad.  A few old DSP4000 presets may be using a smaller range and/or a tapered knob, making the decay times values not fully linear…. but that's about a dozen presets, maybe.

No tapered knobs where ever used in all other algorithms… also because making reverb decay Tap Tempo controllable requires fully linear knobs control and high resolution quantization (0.xx sec).

This is true equally in the H9000.  The knob ranges, resolutions and tapering are all identical and the algorithms behave the same.

It is possible that we are calculating the increment per rotation of the encoder differently.  We aim to get a good balance between fine control and being able to get from one end of the range to the other in a reasonable number of rotations.

The original poster's issue is that because the control is linear and the range is large, it is hard to dial decay times in precisely.  We addressed this on the H9000 by adding a fine control mode where holding Enter (check) while moving the encoder can dial in (for example) 0.01 second adjustments to these decay times.  However, having a tapered control would probably improve the usability of these algorithms.

 

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