Immersive for H9000?

[basehead617]

Is there any chance the H9000 will get the Immersive blackhole/micropitch (and I assume more coming) algos?

It has the I/O for it but maybe it wouldn’t be able to still run 4 chains as advertised when using it?

 

[Puppeteer]

Currently each DSP block can have a maximum of 8 inputs and outputs so it couldn’t handle a 7.1.2 mix. You could possibly do a 5.1 surround version with a single DSP block.  I guess it’s possible to make 2 blocks and put them in parallel in a chain to handle the 7.1.2, but this wouldn’t be as intuitive as the plugins, and would be tricky to implement.

[cyborgssc]

The biggest problem with multiple separate algorithms is how to handle the panning. But if you can drive the panning from your DAW into a multichannel bus, you can pretty easily use multiple instances of even stereo effects for immersive. There are mix engineers, for example, that use 3 or 4 hardware reverbs as a single 5.1 or 7.1 reverb (though most throw away the .1 signal or use it as a mono height send). Seems common to use the L/R pair of each unit as a front-to-back pair on the same side – that way any crosstalk between the channels doesn’t drift the signal left to right. But you could keep it simple with LR pairs directly matching the corresponding pairs of the mix bus. Same concept extends to the height speakers if you want those for reverb returns in any combination of LR or front to back.

This method would work just as well with stereo or multichannel H9000 effects or any other software/DAW hosted effect. All comes down to the panning/routing for the sends and how the returns map back to the mix bed or objects.

[Puppeteer]

Internally in VSIG, the Surround Mixer and System Positioner both support up to 50 inputs and outputs, so the limitation is just the 8 I/O limitation at the Algorithm level.  Chains support up to 32 I/O, and you can define up to 32 I/O in VSIG for the algorithm, it’s just that the H9000 won’t load algorithms with more than 8 Inputs or Outputs.

Anyway, outside of Eventide, it’s possible to do a surround micropitch, but Blackhole is not available in VSIG. You could do other reverbs though.

[ndeshpande]

Thanks for posting about this and asking us. We are certainly looking in to getting Blackhole Immersive and MicroPitch Immersive onto the H9000, though we cannot say when that might be available to users. We are thinking about the technical challenges as well as porting over the workflow to H9000, and both of those take time and careful thought. The Immersive algorithms are not simply parallel routings of mono/stereo versions of the algorithm panned to different locations.

And to follow up, I’m more than happy to discuss the Immersive workflow and environment with users here. We are very excited about the class of sounds available in Immersive.

[ntrmatt]

I’m very, very interested in this. Please do keep us updated, this would be a huge selling point for the H9000.

Even with the 8 I/O limitation you can just leave it up to the user on how to route the 8 outs to their surround bed / ATMOS objects as a first implementation right?

[ndeshpande]

ntrmatt wrote:

I’m very, very interested in this. Please do keep us updated, this would be a huge selling point for the H9000. Even with the 8 I/O limitation you can just leave it up to the user on how to route the 8 outs to their surround bed / ATMOS objects as a first implementation right?

Thanks for the feedback. Which output formats are you most interested in using?

To let you (and everyone else) know that we are committed to all of our H9000 customers, we are developing prototypes. I still can’t commit to a timeline for when the Immersive products will be made available for beta or public release, and I can’t tell you how many rounds of prototypes we’ll have, but we are actively invested in bringing these sounds to all H9000 customers.

[bsfreq]

ndeshpande wrote:

To let you (and everyone else) know that we are committed to all of our H9000 customers, we are developing prototypes.

I’m very glad to hear this (as I was committed to Eventide too, when investing in H9000 before it had all the mentioned features). 

 

Have you gotten anywhere with adding the option to run twice the amount of algorithms (in 44,1/48kHz) and the option to route between different DSPs?

I’ve been waiting for these since 2019, and they still are the most important missing features for me. Frankly I assumed they would have been added a good while ago already. Do you still think they will be added, or have you given up ?

Still not too many functional updates have been released for the H9000, firmware functionality wise, as the updates have mostly been to Emote. Hopefully you’ll tackle the much awaited feature updates, now that you’ve even released an iPad app for the H90 too.

 

Regarding the 2 algorithms per core, I believe the last update from your side was on 2011;

”It is still something that is being discussed and a feature that we’d like to include in a future release. Thanks for your patience.”

And of routing between different DSPs, in 2020;

”It turned out to be more difficult than we expected to make the UI work properly for inter-DSP connections.  We’re still planning to do this though.  We were initially just going to allow direct 1-1 patch connections, but subsequently had the idea to add mixing and gain control within the H9000 main audio router, enabling more complex setups.  We’ll get there – thanks for being patient.”

 

Now that we’ve been patient for 4-5 years, it would be really nice to hear something new.

If I have understood correctly, these features are all supported by the mixer/router level of the H9000, and it’s ”only” the algorithm level and the UI that needs updating?

Without any news from Eventide, it really feels like nothing’s happening, even if the team was in fact working hard on adding these?

So, thanks for any news and updates!

[ndeshpande]

bsfreq wrote:

ndeshpande wrote:

To let you (and everyone else) know that we are committed to all of our H9000 customers, we are developing prototypes.

I’m very glad to hear this (as I was committed to Eventide too, when investing in H9000 before it had all the mentioned features). Have you gotten anywhere with adding the option to run twice the amount of algorithms (in 44,1/48kHz) and the option to route between different DSPs? I’ve been waiting for these since 2019, and they still are the most important missing features for me. Frankly I assumed they would have been added a good while ago already. Do you still think they will be added, or have you given up ? Still not too many functional updates have been released for the H9000, firmware functionality wise, as the updates have mostly been to Emote. Hopefully you’ll tackle the much awaited feature updates, now that you’ve even released an iPad app for the H90 too. Regarding the 2 algorithms per core, I believe the last update from your side was on 2011; ”It is still something that is being discussed and a feature that we’d like to include in a future release. Thanks for your patience.” And of routing between different DSPs, in 2020; ”It turned out to be more difficult than we expected to make the UI work properly for inter-DSP connections. We’re still planning to do this though. We were initially just going to allow direct 1-1 patch connections, but subsequently had the idea to add mixing and gain control within the H9000 main audio router, enabling more complex setups. We’ll get there – thanks for being patient.” Now that we’ve been patient for 4-5 years, it would be really nice to hear something new. If I have understood correctly, these features are all supported by the mixer/router level of the H9000, and it’s ”only” the algorithm level and the UI that needs updating? Without any news from Eventide, it really feels like nothing’s happening, even if the team was in fact working hard on adding these? So, thanks for any news and updates!

I’m going to start by being very frank here. You’ve come to a thread where I as an Eventide dev seek to engage on features I am directly responsible for and can contribute to. You demand of me a slew of features yet to be correctly developed and implemented with no indication that I am remotely capable of assisting you with, complete with quotes from people that definitely are not me, demanding I provide you some updates… with a set of snide and sarcastic remarks veiled as compliments. I hear a combination of acerbity and sneering behind your tone, regardless of whether or not it was your intent. This is not to minimize your very understandable frustrations, but I remain skeptical that your approach here is in good faith.

To give you and idea of the sort of company Eventide is, regardless of the fact I have nothing to do with any of the features you’ve mentioned, your comment stayed with me all evening while I cooked dinner, to the extent I felt compelled well after hours late on a Friday – when I should be thinking about anything but my work – to pipe in and try and reach out a helping hand. Because I still care about you, what frustrates you about this product, and what you need to get out of it that it can’t yet give you. We deeply and passionately care. I still have sympathy for you, and I feel driven to want to help your needs. And while that won’t bring you the features you need today, we are still dedicated to helping you find the sounds deep in the H9000 you know it is capable of, and helping you achieve your vision of where the product can best fit in your workflow.

Overall, I cannot help you with your specific feature set frustrations, and this thread is not the space to discuss those features. I suggest you start separate threads asking about each feature. I’ll ping my colleagues if those threads get no traction, and where we can pipe in with updates we will do so.

If you have further questions about the Immersive line on H9000, I’m more than happy to engage you here in this thread if you can keep it a good fatih conversation on the topic, and respect your fellow H9000 owners’ needs and interests.

[basehead617]

ndeshpande wrote:

bsfreq wrote:

ndeshpande wrote:

To let you (and everyone else) know that we are committed to all of our H9000 customers, we are developing prototypes.

I’m very glad to hear this (as I was committed to Eventide too, when investing in H9000 before it had all the mentioned features). Have you gotten anywhere with adding the option to run twice the amount of algorithms (in 44,1/48kHz) and the option to route between different DSPs? I’ve been waiting for these since 2019, and they still are the most important missing features for me. Frankly I assumed they would have been added a good while ago already. Do you still think they will be added, or have you given up ? Still not too many functional updates have been released for the H9000, firmware functionality wise, as the updates have mostly been to Emote. Hopefully you’ll tackle the much awaited feature updates, now that you’ve even released an iPad app for the H90 too. Regarding the 2 algorithms per core, I believe the last update from your side was on 2011; ”It is still something that is being discussed and a feature that we’d like to include in a future release. Thanks for your patience.” And of routing between different DSPs, in 2020; ”It turned out to be more difficult than we expected to make the UI work properly for inter-DSP connections. We’re still planning to do this though. We were initially just going to allow direct 1-1 patch connections, but subsequently had the idea to add mixing and gain control within the H9000 main audio router, enabling more complex setups. We’ll get there – thanks for being patient.” Now that we’ve been patient for 4-5 years, it would be really nice to hear something new. If I have understood correctly, these features are all supported by the mixer/router level of the H9000, and it’s ”only” the algorithm level and the UI that needs updating? Without any news from Eventide, it really feels like nothing’s happening, even if the team was in fact working hard on adding these? So, thanks for any news and updates!

I’m going to start by being very frank here. You’ve come to a thread where I as an Eventide dev seek to engage on features I am directly responsible for and can contribute to. You demand of me a slew of features yet to be correctly developed and implemented with no indication that I am remotely capable of assisting you with, complete with quotes from people that definitely are not me, demanding I provide you some updates… with a set of snide and sarcastic remarks veiled as compliments. I hear a combination of acerbity and sneering behind your tone, regardless of whether or not it was your intent. This is not to minimize your very understandable frustrations, but I remain skeptical that your approach here is in good faith. To give you and idea of the sort of company Eventide is, regardless of the fact I have nothing to do with any of the features you’ve mentioned, your comment stayed with me all evening while I cooked dinner, to the extent I felt compelled well after hours late on a Friday – when I should be thinking about anything but my work – to pipe in and try and reach out a helping hand. Because I still care about you, what frustrates you about this product, and what you need to get out of it that it can’t yet give you. We deeply and passionately care. I still have sympathy for you, and I feel driven to want to help your needs. And while that won’t bring you the features you need today, we are still dedicated to helping you find the sounds deep in the H9000 you know it is capable of, and helping you achieve your vision of where the product can best fit in your workflow. Overall, I cannot help you with your specific feature set frustrations, and this thread is not the space to discuss those features. I suggest you start separate threads asking about each feature. I’ll ping my colleagues if those threads get no traction, and where we can pipe in with updates we will do so. If you have further questions about the Immersive line on H9000, I’m more than happy to engage you here in this thread if you can keep it a good fatih conversation on the topic, and respect your fellow H9000 owners’ needs and interests.

Thank you! I am very annoyed this thread was hijacked by unrelated whining.

Personally I’m thrilled some progress is being made on immersive for H9K!

Looking forward to a beta someday..

[bsfreq]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to attack you in any way, or hold you personally responsible for anything. Also, english is not my first language, so didn’t mean to sound sarcastic or whiny either.

Updates (development) were mentioned, so I caught that and thought of reminding you (Eventide) of the previously mentioned features.

Also, I know from videos and forum posts that Eventide has a small team of developers, and assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you’d all be more or less aware of the currently developed features and their current status.

I understand that this thread was probably the wrong place for me to write, but again, first time in a while someone from Eventide mentions H9000 developement, so I got excited and had to comment something. At least these forums are the right place for this talk, and I still come here every day in hope to see something new added.

(And unfortunately, this forum layout is not the best, to find older threads easily.)

Hopefully I didn’t spoil your weekend.

Of course I’m thrilled to see any kind of new features added to H9000 and am thankful for your work.

I’ll leave this thread for the immersive stuff now.

All the best!

 

 

 

[ntrmatt]

Completely agree that the weird throw to other issues wasn’t appropriate, I’m super thankful to have devs who care posting here.

Regarding the question on what formats and how it should work, I’ll be honest that my original note on how much I’d wanted it in the H9000 was a bit of a knee jerk “that would be cool!” without thinking it through. Now that I sit down and think about it, I’m not sure how very valuable it would be.

The problem when mixing is that with a limitation of 8 I/O the algorithms would have to output into a smaller bed like 5.1.2 or something and then we’re have to map that onto whatever bed or objects we wanted in the DAW. The biggest issue is I’m usually using the H9k for other things when mixing, often using the insanely good converters for I/O with my rack gear. Plus there are some great plugs now for immersive FX so it’d have to be a lot better on the H9k to be worth it.

When tracking (a lot of my H9k use is when tracking, using the AD conversion and running the FX both for artist mix and often printing) it’s unlikely to be very useful to run the immersive FX on the H9k either.

So maybe it’s not a high priority really, unless I’m missing something that others can think of?

[Eddie Arruda]

Excellent news!!!
Eventide folks, you can’t measure how excited we are for Eventide plugins working in immersive mode. In addition to Micropitch and Blackhole, which operate excellently in the Dolby Atmos scenario, perhaps we would also soon have an Omnipressor to manipulate BEDs!
Best,

 

Eddie

[Author]

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