VST Suggestion for Son of H8000FW:

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    • #105807
      Mike
      Member

      Instead of my previous channel strip ideas, it just occurred to me that the simplest and most commercial way to go might be to use the firewire interface with a new driver to enable the H8000FW to be used as a VST plugin that at a minimum would enable latency synchronization with DAW's.

      When you look at the prices for plugins this could be a real bargain for the end user. Though given the H8000's architecture the number of instances of plugins, without writing a special patch, could be constrained to 1 or 2 depending upon clock rate. Though up to 8 instances should be possible. Nonetheless the H8000 is able to duplicate almost any plugin out there except for impulse response modelers (hint, hint for a new module). The reverse is certainly not the case and gets real expensive, real fast.

      This almost limitless flexibility of Eventide's Harmonizers is due to modular programming. Though I am a little out of date: as for the difficulty in programming in VSIG the only real competitor is Reaktor and that is just as hard to work with and requires using a computer that will usually decide to improvise live. The Nord Modular is easy to program, but only sounds good at what it was designed to do – be a synth. TC's top of the line product may have a similar programming capability, but it starts at being twice as expensive as Eventide with only reverb to recommend it and doesn't seem to be rack mountable.

      If I can ever get the international shipping hassles worked out on my Orville/H8000FW upgrade, I'll try for the best of all possible synthesizer worlds with a Reaktor/H8000 combo on an old laptop. Reaktor has the synth patches (though not exclusively) and Eventide certainly has the effects patches. Combining the two should leave enough CPU headroom to avoid crashes.

      So what? Because right now the only way to accurately mix with Eventide Harmonizers is to either use tape or print the effect.

    • #117821
      Sonic Nomad
      Member

      Oh ye! It would be real nice if we had some form of modular plugin that integrated the H8000 FW into our DAW as a plugin. Even if at most you could cook up two high end custom presets using DSP A & B this would still be a treat. I think though the permutations and intrecasies would call for either onee very big GUI or and very smart interface. Or the plugin would have to be something similar to the above mentioned Reaktor. Even reactor and other "plugin" bukders have standalone interfaces where the engine/preset is assembled and then "exported" as a plugin. So should Eventide ever release this powerful a plugin would it have the ability to offer such indepth programability or would this be in a standalone interface?

      I think we have the answer and it's here and now. VSIG is the interface to build your preset and the upcoming E-Control plugin is the the Plugin though not VST yet!

      Now all we got to do it wait for the the E-Control and see if it wil offer Audio streaming via Firewire or simply be a MIDI controlling plugin and keep praying for proper VSIG support on OS X!

    • #117822
      Mike
      Member

      Sonic Nomad:

      Oh ye! It would be real nice if we had some form of modular plugin that integrated the H8000 FW into our DAW as a plugin. Even if at most you could cook up two high end custom presets using DSP A & B this would still be a treat. I think though the permutations and intrecasies would call for either onee very big GUI or and very smart interface. Or the plugin would have to be something similar to the above mentioned Reaktor. Even reactor and other "plugin" bukders have standalone interfaces where the engine/preset is assembled and then "exported" as a plugin. So should Eventide ever release this powerful a plugin would it have the ability to offer such indepth programability or would this be in a standalone interface?

      I think we have the answer and it's here and now. VSIG is the interface to build your preset and the upcoming E-Control plugin is the the Plugin though not VST yet!

      Now all we got to do it wait for the the E-Control and see if it wil offer Audio streaming via Firewire or simply be a MIDI controlling plugin and keep praying for proper VSIG support on OS X!

      Several years ago I seriously looked into a better GUI. Ironically VSIG can't be improved upon without a writing a whole new application and that would cost some major bucks and not be suitable for rack mounted box anyway. VSIG isn't so bad, unless you think Reaktor is.

      What is E-Conrol?

    • #128968
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      I'm going to make myself unpopular here. But, to quote from the product page:

      "E-Control is an RTAS plug-in that provides real-time control of the
      Eventide H8000 series, H7600, and Eclipse? multi-effects processors

      E-Control?
      provides multiple parameter control automation, and program change
      capability which is saved with the session for easy recall from within
      ProTools."

       Sadly, this means that E-control IS "just a MIDI controlling plugin."

      Its main function is to allow ProTools automation, parameters and other features to extend to the H8000. This is very useful, but is distinct from "full audio streaming."

    • #128969
      Sonic Nomad
      Member

      Mike:

      Several years ago I seriously looked into a better GUI. Ironically VSIG
      can't be improved upon without a writing a whole new application and
      that would cost some major bucks and not be suitable for rack mounted
      box anyway. VSIG isn't so bad, unless you think Reaktor is.
      What is E-Conrol?

       

      Yeah VSIG isn't so bad if you use PC. There is an independant version of VSIG called VSIG-X for OS X but it has long last been updated and it only works via serial and not MIDI.So when I get the chance I moan about this… Devil

      I for one am confused when companies like Eventide work the way they do;
      (Italo, Nick, Ray & others – please don't take this personally. These are only my observations.)

      • They develop & support VSIG on PC only.
      • Then develop and plan to release E-Contol on Mac only.  (for now anyway)
      • They market the the use of the using the included VSIG? (Windows) or VSIG-X (Mac OS-X) development tools for the H7600. But VSIG-X is outdated.
      • The VSIG for PC that was last released is still in Beta. 
      • They continue to market the H8000FW stating the following, " New FireWire I/O now allows direct connection to your Mac or PC so you
        can directly patch 24-bit audio to and from the eight inputs and
        outputs." But there are to date no OS X (Leopard) drivers. Also this is flawed as most users have found. On PC – ASIO sound cards users cannot share the Firewire I/O with that of their sound card. On Mac however there is agregate device wich is great for this but is not currently  possible to Leopard users.

      Sure the above are gripes and most have been noted by Eventide I hope. But do these change the the sound of the the units, NO! In fact if my Eventide did not sound so bloody good I would have been pretty upset with the company for their lack of proper support and implementation on certain issues.

      What I would find interesting to know is how many users are actually using the Firewire I/O on their H8000 FW?

    • #128970
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

       The main reason why we have not done all these things is not that we don't care or don't know, but that we are a small company trying to do a lot of difficult and time-consuming things.

      On a positive note, we expect to deal with most of your issues either this year (Leopard – next few weeks – running a little late) or before too long next year (some but not all of the others).

    • #128971
      Mike
      Member

      Sonic Nomad:

      ?

      On PC – ASIO sound cards users cannot share the Firewire I/O with that of their sound card.

      ?

      So? This problem is common to whole lot of gear. Though supposedly some DAW's will allow multiple ASIO drivers, unfortunately Nuendo isn't one of them. I wasted a day trying to get the Tonepatch USB drivers for the Bose L1 to work with Nuendo using the shareware program ASIO4ALL. In the end I had to scrap ASIO4ALL and just switch drivers in Nuendo when I want to interface with the L1. I expect much the same, if I ever manage to get my Orville to Eventide for an upgrade.

    • #128973
      Sonic Nomad
      Member

      Mike"][quote user="Sonic Nomad:

      On PC – ASIO sound cards users cannot share the Firewire I/O with that of their sound card.

      So? This problem is common to whole lot of gear. Though supposedly some DAW's will allow multiple ASIO drivers, unfortunately Nuendo isn't one of them. I wasted a day trying to get the Tonepatch USB drivers for the Bose L1 to work with Nuendo using the shareware program ASIO4ALL. In the end I had to scrap ASIO4ALL and just switch drivers in Nuendo when I want to interface with the L1. I expect much the same, if I ever manage to get my Orville to Eventide for an upgrade. 

       Mike,

      This is correct. ASIO drivers only allow one device to beactive and in use by the host DAW. There are some applications that may allow several ASIO devices to be active at the same time but Cubase and Nuendo don't.

    • #129041
      Freshminded
      Member

      Hi David,

      You wrote:

      "What I would find interesting to know is how many users are actually using the Firewire I/O on their H8000 FW?"

       Answer:

      I don't use the Firewire I/O on their H8000 FW because I found out that it's impossible to aggregate my Digidesign Digirack 003 with the H8000FW 🙁 I'm still sick of that! It only works with TDM systems. Misleading marketing!!!

    • #129111
      boeklanoei
      Member

      Some notes from my side of view;

      * VSIG = a ***! And an old schematic protocol which is terrible in a vst/vsti/directX world these days. Espaccially for a unit which is over $6000.

      * I totally agree with a vst/directX protocol for both mac/pc, not matters which sort of DAW you uses (TDM,RTAS). Totall Intergration by vst possibilitys in all sorts of DAWS. As a matter of fact; It is so needed in those days with a computer based applications,gear,daw,vst and so on. Right now it's decrease my overall workflow and stability on a negative way since my studio is for 70-80% computer/software.

      * The routing is a *** too, when I reading the manual and breaking my head. The manual is almost univeristy written. Espacially the routing possibilitys is so complicated. Nuts for such an expensive unit.

      * The '' not 2 ASIO supported fact by PC'' is not the fauld of Eventide. Thats something which should be improved by Windows.

      * The futurtive E-control (and hopefully total vst plugin) should be working by FW,serial port and midi (as you can see, several option) not only by midi (I prefer FW myself).

      (for instance; FW1 running channels and FW2 for vst control, or better both/each).

      Thanx so far.

    • #129113
      IDeangelis
      Member

      VSIG
      you have to realize this is and won't be a plugin. It's a software dedicated to advanced users needing to build algorithms. It's not a real time tool. Building algorithms requires a non realtime work. It'd a different thing….hopefully good to have on both Windows and Mac worlds.
      ROUTINGS
      the possibilities here are endless. You have to simply memorize what the unit *DOESN'T ALLOW*, rather than the many ways you can route audio.

      Both applications don't really need to be in the recording software, as they would take resources (even though modest) that are needed for more important tasks.

      MIDI is a software language that can use different hardware protocols. MIDI can be sent thru FireWire.

      *** are not required to provide useful suggestions!

      thanks
      I

    • #129161
      froombosch
      Member

      I am very happy with this non real time editing of patches that goes this deep. t is a more then amazing tool! The main reason why I have the h8k (serial number 13 lol). But really only for the advanced users….

      Harrie

       

    • #129163
      ThreeFingersOfLove
      Participant

      I am very happy with VSig too and I think that the comments Boklanoei made are unfair (regarding VSig). You just can't expect to have an effects processor which is that deep and demand the VSig to be easy and fun.

      Of course, VSig can always benefit from an upgrade – what I find annoying is the inability to see what cable is connected where. The way it is now, by clicking on an outpout you see a whole module outlined and modules often contain dozens of inputs and outputs. I think it would be great to highlight the cable itself and maybe bring up a pop-up window of the name of the respective parameter.

      Another thing which doesn't work that smooth is the zoom in and out controls – they are a bit awkard. When zoom in, I would prefer having the cursor change to a small hand (like in Adobe Reader for instance), instead of scrolling.

      Regards,
      Yannis

    • #129165
      Mike
      Member

      The solution to all of our nagging and complaining is quite simple – let VSIG be subject to open source development like Linux.

      Cheers;
      Mike

    • #129166
      Sonic Nomad
      Member

      As long as there's an up to date version for OS X 10.5+ soon. 

      I'll pay for it.

    • #129258
      Blackinfinity
      Member

      I am interested to buy this product, but I must say I am surprsied there is no VST support for a product like this year 2009,  it is pretty much standard nowdays.

      But yeah luckily it does exist RTAS adapters, I have never tried one, but I think it should work. Any one else have tried this ?

      I really hope I can get this to work in Cakewalk Sonar.

      Cause to program the unit from the harddware interface feels kind of "1990", many times more easy and flexible to program through an software interface.

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