w/d/w or all wet virtual rack

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    • #106725
      passion presents
      Member

      I'd like to separate the dry signal in a midi virtual rack program for use in a wet/dry wet setup. I've got visg up and running, but can't havent been able to figure this out so far.

    • #119667
      IDeangelis
      Member

      Hello

      these presets are extremely complex. We advice to use them as they are, unless you are a skilled Vsig programmer. In addition to this, some Virtual Racks have compression in them. This is a typical "in series" *fx* that requires the dry signal to stay in the preset..

      The dry signal goes thru a long series of switches. Programming a separate dry signal path requires a total dismantle of the algorithm(s) audio path and a rebuild work.

      all the best

      I

    • #119673
      achaput
      Moderator

      Perhaps if you describe your gear and connections we could steer you in the right direction to get something going.

    • #119676
      passion presents
      Member

      My rig is a center dry guitar cabinet with L/R full range monitors for the fx.   I  am either mic'ing  my cabinet and runnning an aux from the board, or taking a line out from the power amp with cab filter and sending to the h8000.  

    • #119677
      passion presents
      Member

      I have a dry center guitar amp, and full range montiors for the L/R wet signal. I am using a lineout ( w/cab filter)  from the power section as the send to the h8000.

    • #130829
      achaput
      Moderator

      So if you simply set the H8000 to 100% wet in the scenario you described then you will achieve a wet/dry/wet setup with many of the Factory Presets. One thing to keep in mind though is that 'wet' usually refers to time-based effects like reverb and delay.

      Effects that are not time-based, such as distortion, wah, and even chorus/flanger/phaser, are usually applied to the dry part of the sound and therefore are not ideal for use in the wet part of a wet/dry/wet setup.

    • #130830
      IDeangelis
      Member

      Usually a w/d/w rig has dry sound in the center speaker and the only process applied to it are typically in_line "fx" like compression/wah/eq.

      All time domain fx, such as chorus/flanger/phaser (yes, these are TD, even though phaser is made with filters but many do with micro_delays), pitch/delay/verb are in the L/R speakers.

      The point here though is about dry sound being always present in the MIDI Virtual racks by design, so if you use a MVRack preset in a w/d/w setup you'll end up with dry sound on all 3 speakers. He needs to remove the dry part from the preset. Problem is that these structures are extremely complex in their routings and require skilled Vsig work. The reason for the dry to be in these presets is that the A/D_D/A converters of the H-series are so good one won't notice the difference with the true dry sound. In addition to this, since there are often "in line" fx like the 3 mentioned above, removing the dry sound may impact on the whole preset structure. An attempt could be trying to mute the very end of the dry sound in the preset as this would remove it from the final mix of the preset, still keeping the time domain effects fed by eq/wah/compression, where present.

      The philosophy of MVRacks presets is to have highly powerful programmable and flexable structures requiring no preset change by means of internally stored tweaks (10!). A single CC message with values 1>10 would simply recall each tweak, provided a "modern" MIDI pedalboard is eing used. As they are, we recommend them for typical stereo use. W/d/w setups will require a totally different programming approach, leading to massive dismantling of these structures.

      We may include some new versions for d/w/d setups in the future.

      all the best

      I

    • #130832
      passion presents
      Member

      In my live application  machine B is used as a guitar rack, and Machine A is a Vocal rack. Midi tweaks allow me to program and control both and leave the mixing to FOH.

      I have a center dry Guitar cabinet with is mic'ed and two full range speakers for delays/samples/and reverb with direct outs to FOH. Pitch Fx needs to hit the tube power section and speaker cabinet to sound natural. I must say…I've been stuck for awhile now on how to make this application work. Really stuck. 

    • #119728
      tuvokzeta9
      Member

      You don't need VSIG for W/D/W.  You need a seperate wet signal path in amp rig.  It is really just a parallel rig.  Mono dry tone to a 212 center cab and 2 112s for wet.  Set the Eventides to 100% wet.  Grab a tap from your amps send or some kind of line out and feed the Eventides… send their outs to a mixer and send the mixer out to a stereo power amp and then the outs from the amp to the L and R wet cabs.  All done.  🙂

    • #130847
      passion presents
      Member

      You don't need VSIG for W/D/W.  You need a seperate wet signal path in amp rig.  It is really just a parallel rig.  Mono dry tone to a 212 center cab and 2 112s for wet.  Set the Eventides to 100% wet.  Grab a tap from your amps send or some kind of line out and feed the Eventides… send their outs to a mixer and send the mixer out to a stereo power amp and then the outs from the amp to the L and R wet cabs.  All done.  🙂

      ######Hi Man, you are respectfully mistaken, or you not understanding me. The dry path …I.e. your aux send from the console, direct out…whatever you use then comes out of the L/R speakers. I so want you to be right.but try it and listen. It has nothing to do with the wet/dry settings on the h8000.  Say I/you pick rack 6618. You can set the wet/dr mix to 100% …and set the delay/verb to 100% and you will still reamplify your dry center signal through your L/R speakers.  

    • #130848
      IDeangelis
      Member

      folks

      I'll explain one more time.

      The MIDI Virtual Racks presets have dry sound in them. So, even if you set the H-xxxx to full 100% wet, you are going to get dry sound from the stereo outputs. It's "built_in". The original head posting in this thread was about how to remove the dry sound from these specific presets.

      thanks

      I

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